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I have a problem with Microsoft word. My language is Farsi. When I insert citation from library that I defined in Word, the software automatically use "," instead "،". How can I fix that? For example, below I wrote tow wrong and true citations. Best regards.

Sample of a citation that Word automatically use "," stead of "،" and it's wrong:

این متن به عنوان نمونه نوشته شده است (اسلامی 1372, 310).

Correct form of citation in Persian that I cited manually:

این متن به عنوان نمونه نوشته شده است (اسلامی 1372، 310).

  • Can you clarify some things please. Are you creating a Bibliographic Source that uses the "،", but when you insert the citation (and/or the list of sources) you are seeing "," instead? If so, which version of Word, which bibliographic style (APA etc.), which type of entry, and what text are you putting in each field of the citation? If not, what exactly is happening? Are you inserting the second text directly in your document, but Word is changing the "comma" character? –  Feb 07 '15 at 09:58
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    Hi and thanks for your attention. I use word 2013 on windows 7. First I inserted the books' information in "Manage Sources" menu. I select "New", then "Book". In Language combo box I selected "Persian". In Other parts, I inserted related information such as Author, Title, Year and etc. I don't use "," or "،" there. The software itself use ",". In older versions of Word (2007), it used "،" for Persian citations that is true. But in 2013 version it doesn't work correctly. – Ali Asghar Feb 08 '15 at 14:06
  • I have been trying to find out where Word gets its localization information from in the Bibliography. (Actually, I started with 2007, and my copy of Word uses ",", so there must be something different about yours). I will be looking at Word 2013 soon. I saw you asked Yves in BibWord - maybe it would be better to go with his Styles etc.? –  Feb 09 '15 at 19:24
  • Exactly I am in a hurry. I am defending my thesis soon and I don't know how to use BibWord. On the othe hand, I have many sources that moving them to other software is very time consuming. I saw someone in word 2007 cited correctly a Persian text. But when I export my files in that format (.doc) the smart texts convert to plain text. Therefore my problem steel remain – Ali Asghar Feb 11 '15 at 10:16

1 Answers1

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This isn't an answer, but I cannot fit it into a comment...

The only thing I was able to do reasonably easily was to open the APA template that you were using and modify the "templ_prop_ListSeparator" template. It started like this (I think it is similar in 2013, but the select statement may be different:

  <xsl:template name="templ_prop_ListSeparator" >
    <xsl:param name="LCID" />
    <xsl:variable name="_LCID">
      <xsl:call-template name="localLCID">
        <xsl:with-param name="LCID" select="$LCID"/>
      </xsl:call-template>
    </xsl:variable>
    <xsl:value-of select="/*/b:Locals/b:Local[@LCID=$_LCID]/b:General/b:ListSeparator"/>
  </xsl:template>

I copied that whole template and renamed the copy to

  <xsl:template name="templ_prop_ListSeparatorSav" >

Then I modified the original to look like this:

  <xsl:template name="templ_prop_ListSeparator" >
    <xsl:param name="LCID" />
    <xsl:variable name="_LCID">
      <xsl:call-template name="localLCID">
        <xsl:with-param name="LCID" select="$LCID"/>
      </xsl:call-template>
    </xsl:variable>
    <xsl:choose>    
      <xsl:when test="$_LCID='1065'">
        <xsl:text>،</xsl:text>
      </xsl:when>
      <xsl:otherwise>
        <xsl:value-of select="/*/b:Locals/b:Local[@LCID=$_LCID]/b:General/b:ListSeparator"/>
      </xsl:otherwise>
    </xsl:choose>
  </xsl:template>

I am sure it could be simpler, but what this is really doing is checking for sources that have been set up as Persian language sources (LCID=1065), and using the Unicode "Arabic Comma" as the separator instead of whatever character Word currently uses.

It may not be the ListSeparator that you need, but the GroupSeparator - in which case, you will need to do something similar to the templ_prop_GroupSeparator" template instead, or possibly as well as ListSeparator.

The other problem is that the separator that you need may depend on the various things about the context - e.g., whether it is between two Farsi-script (RTL) texts, two Latin-script (LTR) texts, one of each, and so on. I really don't know enough to have a chance of getting that right.

I had to use a binary editor to get the right character into my document and since I was using UTF-8 encoding I also had to change the XML declaration so that it specified UTF-8 instead of the ISO-8859-1.

The other thing is anyone else working with your document will find that the definitions in the template on their system will be imposed, certainly if you retain the existing scheme name. So IMO you should copy the existing APA scheme and rename it.

Update...

I have put a file based on the Word 2013 APA 6 template, with some of the changes detailed above on dropbox

here

You will need to download it and put it in the correct folder for Word 2013. You will then need to switch to using this bibliography type (don't worry - you can always switch back!)

You will see that I have created new versions of the ListSeparator and GroupSeparator templates, and changed the name of the template so that it should appear in your list of bibliographic types (APA, Chicago, etc. ) as ali_asghar_(something), where "(Something)" may be a language ID (LCID, such as 1065, or "other").

I think this only has a chance of working if your citations and bibliography lists are in RTL paragraphs. If it comes close to what you need, I think you may still have to modify some commas manually before creating your PDF.

  • This isn't an answer for limitations, I posted a new one Answer. Thanks. – Ali Asghar Feb 13 '15 at 11:06
  • I saw an Answer that you posted, but it seems to have gone. Unfortunately I just haven't had time to look at this much further. I hope to do so today but I do not think I am going to get much further. –  Feb 13 '15 at 14:09
  • I don't know why one moderator deleted my answer. The point was that your solution was very good and I thank you very much. As you said I think there is a smart and simple solution for this problem that we don't know yet. Exactly I haven't information in programing languages and then it is not easy for me to extend more try in this subject. After I saw your guidance I made a copy from APA Style and rename it. I don't know which code change the name of Drop-Down menu in reference tab, therefore now I have 2 APA choice in that drop-down menu in Word. And also I don't know where replace this cod: – Ali Asghar Feb 13 '15 at 16:45
  • I found other code which you wrote and replace them in the APA bibliography file in my laptop. One problem is there and it's that in some cases Word uses two separator in Farsi and English language. And in the references that have more than one author, it steel use English separator. Also in Bibliography Section of my thesis, Word use normal separator. I myself work on my thesis and finally I'll convert my file to PDF format. Then if I can solve my problem in my laptop, I wont have any problem. Thanks. Thanks. Thanks. – Ali Asghar Feb 13 '15 at 16:46
  • Is there a way to notice Microsoft about this problem? Do you now any way? – Ali Asghar Feb 13 '15 at 16:47
  • re. moderator deleting your answer" I don't know why, and I see no record of the deletion. I suspect that we are expected to move to "chat", but if so, it isn't a familiar area for me. I'm sorry, I do not know a way to notify Microsoft - certainly not one that would result in a fix that would help your thesis. –  Feb 13 '15 at 20:33
  • I haven't been able to do anything on this for a while, but if you still need it, you can try the template I have uploaded - please see my revised "Answer" for info. and the link. I definitely will not be able to do more than that in the near future. –  Feb 18 '15 at 16:45
  • Hi Bibadia. Thank you very very much. It works. Except the Bibliography, on the other sections it works very well. Very good point is that in your template, in English sources it uses "," and in Farsi sources it uses "،". I myself can change the signs in bibliography by "Replace" tool. One other thing that I want to ask is that is there anyway to template uses from "و" insted "&"? In Persian standard citation it should be use from conjunction "و" between tow author. Finally Thank you again. :) – Ali Asghar Feb 20 '15 at 11:32
  • Dear Bibadia, You helped me and I want to thank you in the acknowledgement page of my thesis. If it is possible, please say to me your name and family. – Ali Asghar Feb 21 '15 at 16:00
  • Hi Ali Asghar - I have tried to make the cnage you need - see https://www.dropbox.com/s/xrgdixrvl9n1shf/aliasghar2.xsl?dl=0 . It is a very similar change to the other ones. Unfortunately I cannot do anything more on this (or anything else!) for some time. –  Feb 22 '15 at 22:08
  • Dear Bibadia! Thank you very much. Nothing else matter. You are a benevolent person. :) – Ali Asghar Feb 26 '15 at 17:42