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I have only an Ethernet cable straight to my apartment.

The Internet works when I just plug in this cable into the computer.

They say that there is a switch somewhere in the apartment building.

Where is actually the modem? Is it somewhere on the ISP side? How does it work?


P.S. During my discussion on this platform, I realized that my ISP is a reseller.

Most ISP's in my country sell the traffic this way - users don't need a modem.

I guess, it is called the "FTTN (Fiber To The Node)" connection.

So the modem must be somewhere on the ISP reseller side.

t7e
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    I would be surprised to see a setup like this in the US, but I would guess that the modem (or other ISP equipment) is common to your whole apartment building, and is located in a basement or wiring closet somewhere. – Glenn Willen Jul 28 '20 at 09:38
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    @GlennWillen You should visit NYC sometime. Large Apartment buildings have this kind of infrastructure. – boatcoder Jul 28 '20 at 11:05
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    @boatcoder, should I ever visit NYC, will you show me some network infrastructure? :) – Carsten S Jul 28 '20 at 15:32
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    @GlennWillen This is common in college towns too. – Hearth Jul 28 '20 at 17:41
  • @Hearth I wasn't counting those because the ones I've seen were "under the table", i.e. the ISP is not formally aware of the existence of the tenants at all. I assume that's not the OP's case. (And I assume it's not the case in boatcoder's example either, I would totally believe that NYC bulidings have some kind of formal arrangement for this.) – Glenn Willen Jul 28 '20 at 19:12
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    `So the modem must be somewhere on the ISP reseller side` -- There may not be a modem at all. A modem is used when the digital signal is being sent via a sinusoidal carrier. If the signal is being sent digitally, there won't be a modem. This would be done by using long distance fiber to an ISP where they would be connected via other long distance fiber. – Ben Jul 28 '20 at 19:17
  • @GlennWillen I'm reasonably certain the one in my apartment complex is above-board; I've gone directly to the ISP for troubleshooting support before and they didn't see anything odd about it. – Hearth Jul 28 '20 at 20:33
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    I'm in downtown Chicago, and my ~700-family condo building was wired with cat5e internally on construction; we have a contract with [an upstream ISP](https://silverip.com/) that has a microwave link to their datacenter that they trunk everything together over (with each unit getting at least 100mbit symmetric, with an available upsell to symmetric gigabit). No modems anywhere. – Charles Duffy Jul 28 '20 at 20:40
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    @CarstenS - I live in the Caribbean now, so no. But if you ask an agent about renting an apartment in some of the larger buildings, they can explain it to you. – boatcoder Jul 29 '20 at 10:07
  • It's just a matter of technology. In my life I experienced dial-up, then ISDN with a dedicated hardware (modem), ADSL (with a different kind of modem) and today I use FTTH, where an optic fiber comes straight into my home. And for which I don't have a modem, I have an ONT (Optical Network Terminal), which can be explained to a kid as a tiny flashing lamp in the non-visible colour scope – usr-local-ΕΨΗΕΛΩΝ Jul 29 '20 at 15:04
  • FTTN or Fibre To The Node just refers to having fibre optics between the city exchange and the local node (the one in your neighbourhood). After the node, there are various possibilities for connecting the last portion between the node and your house. – Ben Jul 29 '20 at 15:05
  • Its likely that you plug into a switch or router run by telco or facility management. That router might have wan Interfaxes or the might be a transceiver, media converter or modem. The Ethernet won't reach much besides your perimeter, for sure. – eckes Jul 30 '20 at 03:13

5 Answers5

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There could be a modem connecting to the switch/router gear that is in the other side of that Ethernet connection, however a modem is not mandatory.

Depending where you are, it is entirely probable that your connection does not use a modem of any sort. For example, in New Zealand we have fibre to the home/fibre to the building. Fibre does not require a modem - only a media converter. (There are likely additional layers.like PPPoE and/or VLANS handled by a router but there is no modem).

The ISP does not require a modem either as the signal is digital. (All a modems job is to convert a digital sihnal into an analog one and back. This is needed, for example, to send and receive data over phone cable/2 wire copper and cable connections)

(I disagree with John and assert that a reseller is an ISP, as the meaning of the word is fairly generic. I know because I have built ISP's - including ISPs which sold services to resellers)

davidgo
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  • Thank you very much for the details. I have a bit of an offtopic question. If my ISP uses telephone lines, are there any BGP routers in the system? How does the traffic flow behind their modem? (Don't quite understand how it works). – t7e Jul 28 '20 at 07:16
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    Note that a media converter has the same functionality as a modem, only with optical signals instead of electrical ones... – user253751 Jul 28 '20 at 09:54
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    @t7e Telephone lines an BGP are completely unrelated concepts. It's like asking whether there are BGP routers if your ISP uses fiber optics. It's also like asking whether TV studios are still involved when you have cable TV. – user253751 Jul 28 '20 at 09:57
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    Your modem/fibre connection is a physical delivery medium. BGP is a means for providers to balance and route traffic and is independent of the delivery mechanism. While commonly deployed and highly advantageous, an ISP does not have to use BGP. Traffic to modems can be routed statically in much the same way your router does it, or (internally) using another protocol like RIP or OSPF if they have banks of modems and need to allocate static IPs. – davidgo Jul 28 '20 at 10:20
  • Note that for DSL type connection they don't typically run modems, they run other equipment into exchanges that have an equivalent device -different technologies an brands have different names (for example RAN or DSLAM) – davidgo Jul 28 '20 at 10:21
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    @davidgo They're all fundamentally the same thing, just with different names and maybe more than one of them in the same box. – user253751 Jul 28 '20 at 11:20
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    "Fibre does not require a modem" Not sure what you mean here. Fibre (fiber here ) is a medium, not a protocol. Fiber can run whatever you want on it, it doesn't care. The two things at either end do the talking, the fiber just carries the message. (Likewise, the two things doing the talking don't usually know or care what their message is being carried over, they just need to know something is there carrying the message. An IP connection has successfully been made over carrier pigeon if I'm not mistaken. ) – RTHarston Jul 28 '20 at 16:27
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    @RTHarston, I think it means that the devices that plug into fiber connections aren't called ["modems"](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modem), but ["media converters"](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fiber_media_converter) (or just transceivers) – ilkkachu Jul 28 '20 at 17:33
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    So... would OP effectively be on a giant shared LAN with neighbors by default (e.g. if they connected a desktop to the wall ethernet with no router in between)? That seems cool for LAN parties but a ginormous security design flaw and attack surface in general. – CCJ Jul 28 '20 at 17:55
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    @CCJ its possible if designed incompetently but likely not. One way to solve this is with a router+vlan switch. On the router configure each business on a separate VLAN. Connect router to switch with trunk port(s) so it carries all clans to switch. On switch throw ports associated with each office onto an untagged port with their clan. You do need to run multiple dhcp instances to make this work, but its not a big deal. – davidgo Jul 28 '20 at 19:17
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    @davidgo, enterprise switches have features to separate access ports from each other even within the same VLAN. – ilkkachu Jul 28 '20 at 21:05
  • @RTHarston We found this pigeon with a message, it says "SYN" – le3th4x0rbot Jul 28 '20 at 22:07
  • But do fibers require transceivers? If so those transceivers act like modems. – iBug Jul 29 '20 at 05:41
  • @davidgo There is a typo in 3rd paragraph "digital signal" – Ĭsααc tիε βöss Jul 29 '20 at 06:47
  • PPPoE and no modem ? It seems like you should look up what PPP stands for, what it is used for ... PPPoE is just PPP over Ethernet, hence the acronym. – user2531336 Jul 29 '20 at 08:46
  • @user2531336 what are you trying to say? Ethernet does not in any way imply a modem, although some DSL connections use it (particularly in Aussie). There are plenty if other usage cases for it though. – davidgo Jul 29 '20 at 09:04
  • @user2531336 I've likewise used PPPoE on Ethernet connections. – davidgo Jul 29 '20 at 09:06
  • What does PPoE connect to on the other side of the Ethernet cable? – user2531336 Jul 29 '20 at 09:10
  • A PPPoE server (is a programming on a server or router) - eg https://dianne.skoll.ca/projects/rp-pppoe/ - ie software binding to an Ethernet interface. I'm still not understanding your point. – davidgo Jul 29 '20 at 09:20
  • EPON ONTs are more than just media converters, because they deal with the logistics of the *shared* fiber. It's not the same thing as just sticking a fiber SFP into an Ethernet switch. – hobbs Jul 30 '20 at 03:09
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Modems are not a requirement, at all. They just happen to be the common case in many parts of the world because they allow usage of existing (quite often old) telephony or cable television infrastructure to provide internet access.

In many of the more developed parts of the world though (except the US, because we're still essentially a third-world country when it comes to internet access outside of very large cities), it is far more common to have 'Ethernet in the first/last mile' (that is, the final link from the ISP to the client demarcation point (usually a gateway or NAT router) is Ethernet of some sort, with 'first/last mile' referring to that link specifically). In most places, this translates to a fiber-optic link to the ISP, but in dense residential buildings such as apartments, it's much more common for it to be Cat5e (or if you're lucky Cat6) UTP cabling (that is, 'regular' Ethernet cabling).

In such setups, there's no need for a modem at all, because you're not tunneling Ethernet or IP over a different type of physical link (such as X.25, ISDN, or DOCSIS). You will usually need a router though (and should have one even if you don't need it because it provides an extra layer of security).

In your particular case, either your apartment is set up like this (that is, you have a centralized link to the ISP which is then distributed through a switch to each of the apartments), or you have a single centralized modem which is handled in the same way.


As an aside, there really may be no modem here at all. While the internet, in it's infancy, did originally rely a lot on connections over analogue communications channels like phone lines, that hasn't been the case for the core of the internet for multiple decades. Modems have only hung on because ISPs are cheap bastards who don't want to invest in newer infrastructure until there's no other option (this is also why we're still stuck using IPv4 more than 20 years after IPv6 was developed). Outside of that first/last mile, you won't find modems involved in internet access in most parts of the world unless you're quite literally in the middle of nowhere. The modern internet runs on fiber Ethernet links between major data centers, and has nothing to do with analogue communications infrastructure.

The real irony here is that a lot of the traditionally analogue telecommunications industries are migrating to running on the modern fiber network infrastructure the core of the internet runs over. A lot of bigger phone companies are already using VoIP on their internal networks instead of historical analogue network protocols like X.25 and ISDN, and even many cable and satellite television services are moving the same direction.

vaultah
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Austin Hemmelgarn
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    You're saying you can plug a fiber optic cable directly into a router WAN port? TIL I'd add that people still carry modems in their pockets an a daily basis :) – jiggunjer Jul 29 '20 at 08:07
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    In Finland there is also many homes with internet over telephone or TV cable. I guess there was some historical period when good telephony or TV cables were laid. And now many existing buildings in developed countries are trapped with those, when it is cheaper to make customer buy a modem than to lay another cable. In Russia, for example, most ISPs lay their ethernet cables to the flat because there is simply no other cable to use. – max630 Jul 29 '20 at 12:51
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    While I appreciate the answer, and it *is* accepted, it could be much improved by cutting all the sarcasm ("stuck in the 20th century", "ISPs are cheap bastards" etc.) and reducing it to the technological facts. And maybe explaining the confusion with the word "modem" (which is used by some providers to mean the end device that the user gets - like a FritzBox etc. - even if todays modems do a lot more than just modulating and demodulating). – AnoE Jul 29 '20 at 14:42
  • @Austin Hemmelgarn Thanks. It seems that I don't understand how ISP works at all. Could you recommend some straight to the point literature on that subject? – t7e Jul 29 '20 at 14:48
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    @t7e Unfortunately I'm not aware of any good literature on it myself, or at least any that doesn't involve getting into all the complexities of how the internet itself works. The [Wikipedia page about ISPs](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_service_provider) gives a really basic overview, but not what I'd consider a concrete explanation of how they work. – Austin Hemmelgarn Jul 29 '20 at 14:57
  • I used to have fiber from my local telecom - we didn't have a modem, we had an ONT (Optical Network Terminal, I think?) into which I plugged an ethernet cable from my firewall. In fact, it's still in the garage, unconnected to anything (since I dumped the telecom after poor customer service and went to cable). – Kryten Jul 29 '20 at 16:04
  • Here in Russia, in large cities it's even customary to have fiber optic link as the last mile. The home router typically lent by the provider in such a case may even contain the relevant socket directly (that is, no media converter is used). – kostix Jul 29 '20 at 16:58
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    @kostix From what I understand this is the case in many major European citiesas well. Makes me really sad I live in the US, because it's pretty rare here unless you're in or very close to a city that hosts major data centers (hell, I live near a major USAF base and still don't have the option of anything other than DOCSIS or ADSL). – Austin Hemmelgarn Jul 29 '20 at 17:42
  • @t7e it's very unlikely that you have metro ethernet in a residence, as this answer implies, so don't worry too hard about your understanding. – hobbs Jul 30 '20 at 03:12
  • Even where fibre is rolled out to consumers, it's usually going to be Gigabit-capable Passive Optical Network or GPON, where ~20 customers share one fibre and line port, split with an optical prism. This standard still uses ATM; it's not ethernet. – SomeoneSomewhereSupportsMonica Jul 30 '20 at 06:19
  • DOCSIS and xDSL are still very popular high-volume technologies. Ethernet-over-fibre works for big connections, where a large customer wants 1-10Gb+ to themselves with minimal congestion, but GPON is cheaper for residential where over-subscription is acceptable. Ethernet-over-copper only works within 100m. Essentially, 90% if not more of connections couldn't feasibly done via straight ethernet, even if you lay new cable. – SomeoneSomewhereSupportsMonica Jul 30 '20 at 06:23
  • "has nothing to do with analogue communications infrastructure" - all infrastructure is analogue, because the physical world is not split into discrete chunks of information. We use the analogue medium to transmit digital data by defining bands of the signal to represent digital bits. – Adam Millerchip Jul 30 '20 at 13:56
  • @AdamMillerchip OK, rephrase that then to 'infrastructure designed for analogue communications'. I'm not saying there's no analogue component involved, I'm saying that we're not running the internet on stuff like old Bell T1 lines anymore. – Austin Hemmelgarn Jul 30 '20 at 14:24
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    "You seem to be stuck in the twentieth century as far as your understanding of how internet access works is concerned" Wow dude. We have a [Code of Conduct](https://superuser.com/conduct) for a reason. This is a putdown and not even a subtle one. ✋ – vaultah Jul 30 '20 at 16:23
  • Please refer to the code of conduct found here: https://superuser.com/conduct. Disrespect should not be tolerated in any of our StackExchange communities. I would appreciate if you would edit your answer to not insult the questioner, as this is a high-quality question that is helpful to many people's understanding of the internet – Jac Frall Jul 30 '20 at 20:07
  • @JacFrall you're kidding, right? This question is so poisoned by "windmills do not work that way" that its existence only adds to the prevailing confusion. For someone who legitimately wants to learn, coming upon this page, there is nothing of value. – hobbs Sep 17 '20 at 03:01
  • @hobbs I learned a lot from this question. I think many others did as well. In retrospect, high quality question may not be the correct categorization. Though it is a question that I think a number of people had. There’s value in that – Jac Frall Sep 17 '20 at 03:13
  • @JacFrall yes, many people "learned a lot" here, in that they came away believing that they know more than they did. If any of it was *correct*, that would be something to be proud of. But helping people confidently spread misinformation and nonsense isn't quite so laudable. – hobbs Sep 17 '20 at 03:28
  • @hobbs I think maybe you should address which questions and what parts are incorrect. That would benefit us all – Jac Frall Sep 17 '20 at 03:47
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When internet was younger, we had decent phone lines, so we could use those to connect our households to the internet. That's the use of classic modem - converting the Ethernet signal to something that can be carried over the phone line or similar.

These days it becomes increasingly rare as we are having more and more infrastructure built specifically to carry internet traffic. It has already shifted over - in many countries telephony is carried over internet. I was briefly working in a company developing solutions for that in 2012 and back then many of the mobile providers in Europe were already using internet to carry the calls between cell towers. Afterwards I've worked with three companies that have ripped out or cut off their phone lines and replaced them with IP telephony.

Of course, there are still devices that convert signal to be carried over different medium, but the modems that hook up to the phone line in your home are pretty much a thing of the past.

During my discussion on this platform, I realized that my ISP is a reseller.

It's not like they are buying the internet and selling it to you. We are all part of the internet and we are paying the ISPs for providing the connection between us. Your ISP is reselling only in a sense that they pay some other companies for using their high bandwidth connections to other ISPs.

Džuris
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    Well, a "DSL modem" would connect Ethernet on your computer's side to the phone line signal. Before that, a "modem" was inside the computer instead of an Ethernet NIC, and connected directly to the phone line. – axus Jul 28 '20 at 14:58
  • @axus, yes, but I am not sure that it is accurate to call the signal that comes into the DSL modem on my desk a phone line any more. – Carsten S Jul 28 '20 at 15:37
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    @CarstenS the "phone line" is the cable. If you have DSL then yes it's coming over a phone line, from your telephone exchange. – OrangeDog Jul 28 '20 at 16:55
  • @OrangeDog, kind of, but the only phone connections that can be established via it nowadays are VoIP on top of DSL. – Carsten S Jul 28 '20 at 16:57
  • @CarstenS no, a line that runs DSL to your telephone exchange can also run regular phone communications. VoIP over DSL isn't a great idea - the QoS will be a lot worse than just using the phone line normally. I'm not even sure that a VoIP phone supports a direct DSL connection - and you'd need to connect it via Ethernet to your modem as well. – OrangeDog Jul 28 '20 at 23:32
  • @OrangeDog, you are of course correct in all of this (although QoS is not inherently worse, and nowadays the call will most likely be digital most of the way anyway). I would add reliability as an advantage of a traditional land line, plus, with an appropriate phone it used to work without an additional power supply. However, it is not possible to get this kind of service in Germany any more, so calling that line a phone line is starting to become anachronistic. It really all is VoIP here now, even though that fact may be hidden from some end users by a DSL modem that only offers VoIP. – Carsten S Jul 29 '20 at 10:39
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The modem is in a cabinet somewhere in your building. All the apartments in the building are sharing the same modem* and the same connection to the ISP. A series of switches are dividing and distributing individual network connections to the apartments.

Fibre to the Node just means there are fibre-optic cables going to a cabinet somewhere (on the street or at the bottom of the building), where it probably switches to co-ax until it gets to the modem. It has nothing to do with the business model of your ISP.

It's highly unlikely that Ethernet cables are coming into your building - they do not support the distances required without (relatively) expensive repeaters, which also add a lot of latency.

* there may actually be a couple, for redundancy and/or increased bandwidth.

OrangeDog
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  • I agree that there's a cabinet somewhere in the building containing some kind of Ethernet switch. The purpose of the switch is to fan-out the Internet connection to the apartments. There a lot of Metro Ethernet in New York, where Ethernet is carried over fiber to the building, and then distributed from there via a standard Ethernet switch. There's something a lot like a modem that basically converts the media from Fiber to classical Cat 5/6 physical layer. – the_limey Jul 30 '20 at 09:43
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You don't have a modem... for some definition of "modem".

Your Ethernet port actually contains a modem (modulator-demodulator). That's what converts the digits in your computer into analog electric vibrations over the cable.

From a more general networking viewpoint, your DSL line, or Ethernet, or wifi connection or optical cable, whatever - are not much different. You have some signal going in some media using some protocol - and modems/tranceivers at both ends.

What your ISP sells you as a "modem" (if they do) is up to them, as long as you are OK using it. It is usually a router that has a port compatible with their network (DSL, DOCSIS, optical, cellular or even Ethernet).

In a lot of places with higher populaiton density it is both cheaper and easier to build an Ethernet LAN for a building, a neighborhood or a small vilage. It may or may not have an optical backbone and it may have whatever uplink is available. (It also may or may not have a static/lighting protection, but that's another story...).

Ethernet ISPs are quite popular in a price-sensitive markets as in Eastern Europe. I see no technical reason why they shouldn't operate in any apartment building (regulation may be a non-technical reason). It may be just the landlord if the building has a single/major one.

Where I live (Sofia) ~60% of the Internet customers just get Ethernet and everything is as simple as plugging the cable in your computer. It is up to you to install a wifi router (or your ISP may sell you a medicore one).

fraxinus
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